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Post by kwangman39 on May 19, 2006 14:31:05 GMT -5
If Flair is 15 years past his prime than Hogan is about 20 years past his prime. Flair was still the best wrestler as late as 1993-1994. Go back and watch his matches against Curt Hennig (RAW January 1993), the Hollywood Blonds (Clash June 1993), Sting (WCW Saturday Night August 1993), Rick Rude (Fall Brawl September 1993), Vader (Starrcade 1993), Ricky Steamboat (April and May 1994), etc. if you want further proof. No one else put that kind of a year+ together at that time.
If anyone has a hard time moving around the ring it is Hogan. This is why he stays in the middle of the ring and just punches or kicks. Hogan himself has admitted to this. The fact is that Hogan has a bad knee and hip (the mark of an old man). And what about Vince? How can you take him seriously as a threat when he was never a wrestler in the first place?
The bottom line is that this is entertainment. My point about Cena is that he has NEVER had a match against either Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle as entertaining as the ones Flair had with this guys. As far as your bringing up John Cena's "wins," you could beat everyone in a single night gauntlet match if the McMahon's and creative wrote it that way.
Flair can still entertain better than 95% of the WWE roster. He should retire only when he wants to.
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Post by precious1 on May 19, 2006 17:20:48 GMT -5
Now don't get all up in a snit I did not say he should retire only become a force more in the role of manager. There have been quite a few notable managers ie JJ Dillon, Paul E, Teddy Long etc. Yeah I know about Hulks hip and knee replacements. It happens when you wrestle as long as he has. But he still looks like he could hold his own as does Vince. Regardless of weather Vince could actually compete against his wrestlers or not I would guarantee he would give them a good fight. Flair should take a lesson from the Dusty one and become more of a brain. I would love to see him as a manager he could really add a lot to the matches of some of these younger less experienced wrestlers. His experience would be quite valuable to them and maybe when he does retire we could see the emergence of another Nature Boy. It would be a shame to lose that.
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Post by acezappa on May 20, 2006 16:25:20 GMT -5
Not to hijack this topic further, BUT, Hulk and Vince owe much of their look to steroids. Ric is at least allowing his body to do the natural thing, and though he's not as toned as he once was, he still looks good for his age. Hogan and Vince may "look" impressive, but watching Ric in the recent ladder matches (a type of match is something far removed for him and his style) he looked fantastic, whereas any match featuring Hogan and Vince show off their inabilities in the ring.. I do see what you're saying, to a degree. Flair would make a great manager, but he still has something in the ring as well. No, he's nothing like what he once was, but he still makes Hogan look like a joke (which he looked like even back in the day before the knee and hip.) So, though the opinion that Flair should stay away from wrestling is an opinion, I still think Flair is quite viable/believeable in his matches still.
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Post by precious1 on May 20, 2006 19:24:15 GMT -5
A great many of the wrestlers today owe their look to steroids. You can spot them a mile away. Flairs body has taken the low road because of some hard partying ways. Has nothing to do with the natural age progression as I know quite a few men his age whose body still looks pretty good and it has nothing to do with steroids.
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Post by acezappa on May 21, 2006 16:53:20 GMT -5
I don't refute the steroids thing. It's clearly rampant. And I do agree that some guys Flair's age do look better naturally, and yes the partying/abuse from the business/problems stemming from injuries including a plane crash do cause things to happen to his body. What I said was, that he's allowing his body to do what it's going to do naturally. I wasn't saying he was the physical specimen of men his age, lol. All men (and women) no matter what, are going to age in their own way physically.  |
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Post by precious1 on May 21, 2006 19:37:04 GMT -5
I fully understand aging and as you stated Flair is certainly aging. That is why it is my opinion he should consider managing instead of wrestling.
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Post by sniperniles on Jun 7, 2006 3:43:11 GMT -5
If Flair is 15 years past his prime than Hogan is about 20 years past his prime. Hogan had a prime  The only thing Hogan was able to do in the ring during his "Prime" are the following. Body slam, Clothesline, Big Boot, Leg Drop. Hogan never was, nor will ever be considered a great wrestler (By me anyway) Flair at least can wrestle and tell a story while in the ring. His matches against Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, just to name a few told great stories Another thing also, Flair is not afraid to do what his good for the company by putting younger talent over. The only thing Hogan can put over, is how annoying he his. The only time you see Hogan is when there's some big money to be made that's it. He's never around, yet always needs to win in his matches. As for the original question. I always found that Mongo had the Horsemen mentality, too bad he wasn't a good worker. |
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Post by precious1 on Jun 29, 2006 8:55:48 GMT -5
If Flair is 15 years past his prime than Hogan is about 20 years past his prime. Hogan had a prime The only thing Hogan was able to do in the ring during his "Prime" are the following. Body slam, Clothesline, Big Boot, Leg Drop. Hogan never was, nor will ever be considered a great wrestler (By me anyway) Flair at least can wrestle and tell a story while in the ring. His matches against Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, just to name a few told great stories Another thing also, Flair is not afraid to do what his good for the company by putting younger talent over. The only thing Hogan can put over, is how annoying he his. The only time you see Hogan is when there's some big money to be made that's it. He's never around, yet always needs to win in his matches. As for the original question. I always found that Mongo had the Horsemen mentality, too bad he wasn't a good worker. Sorry it took so long to respond but here goes. I agree that Hogan is not much in the way of carrying a story. Flair defiantly has a "flair" for that. I was just commenting that Hogan has managed to keep his body in great shape while Flair really needs to wear a t-shirt. His body is starting to show that aging hard living party boy look. I never said Flair wasn't at one time a great wrestler but now he would be better suited to be a meddling manager like JJ Dillon was. Who better to be the manager of a great tag team like Triple H and Shaun Michaels then the dirtiest player in the book Flair. I would love to see it. With DX making a comeback Flair could be their ace in the hole by managing them. |
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Post by phinney on Jun 29, 2006 13:38:22 GMT -5
I believe the idea was to make the Horsemen seem multi-sported. Mongo was at least a superbowl winner and great football player. Fans knew him more than Roma. Roma was a jobber.
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Post by sniperniles on Jun 30, 2006 1:08:07 GMT -5
Hogan had a prime The only thing Hogan was able to do in the ring during his "Prime" are the following. Body slam, Clothesline, Big Boot, Leg Drop. Hogan never was, nor will ever be considered a great wrestler (By me anyway) Flair at least can wrestle and tell a story while in the ring. His matches against Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, just to name a few told great stories Another thing also, Flair is not afraid to do what his good for the company by putting younger talent over. The only thing Hogan can put over, is how annoying he his. The only time you see Hogan is when there's some big money to be made that's it. He's never around, yet always needs to win in his matches. As for the original question. I always found that Mongo had the Horsemen mentality, too bad he wasn't a good worker. Sorry it took so long to respond but here goes. I agree that Hogan is not much in the way of carrying a story. Flair defiantly has a "flair" for that. I was just commenting that Hogan has managed to keep his body in great shape while Flair really needs to wear a t-shirt. His body is starting to show that aging hard living party boy look. I never said Flair wasn't at one time a great wrestler but now he would be better suited to be a meddling manager like JJ Dillon was. Who better to be the manager of a great tag team like Triple H and Shaun Michaels then the dirtiest player in the book Flair. I would love to see it. With DX making a comeback Flair could be their ace in the hole by managing them. Ok..Now, I see what you mean, and I actually have to agree with you there |
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Post by JNance on Jul 8, 2006 15:45:25 GMT -5
Well, I tend to agree with all you guys. Roma was a very talented wrestler, but he was not ever Horsemen material. I think the creative minds at WCW wanted to kill the Horsemen, and chose to do so by inserting a glorified prelim curtain jerker into the most prestigious group in the sport.
McMichael did seem genuinely proud to be a Horseman, even though his in-ring skills were not that good. Jeff Jarrett was a better choice, but of the two choices, McMichael was the better.
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Post by stingmark on Jul 8, 2006 22:04:18 GMT -5
Best Horsemen group ever:
Flair/Tully/Arn/Barry.
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Post by precious1 on Jul 9, 2006 17:06:15 GMT -5
Best Horsemen group ever: Flair/Tully/Arn/Barry. I liked Flair/Ole/Gene/Tully. I never thought Barry was a very convincing horseman. He made a better face man. |
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Post by GarvinStomp on Jul 9, 2006 18:32:01 GMT -5
5/20/06 at 20:24 Precious1 wrote:
Actually, sterroids probably do have something to do with it. In his book, Flair mentioned taking sterroids five different times during his career. He might not have been dependent on them, but he did admit to taking them to enhance his physical appearance!
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Post by precious1 on Jul 9, 2006 20:33:58 GMT -5
5/20/06 at 20:24 Precious1 wrote:
Actually, sterroids probably do have something to do with it. In his book, Flair mentioned taking sterroids five different times during his career. He might not have been dependent on them, but he did admit to taking them to enhance his physical appearance! Don't see where it helped him any so maybe it was good he didn't make a habit of it. |
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