Starrcadd87

[GarvinStomp]

that is true but why should the MACW fans cry just because one big show went to the Midwest? Granted you don't want to take your most loyal fans for granted, but it seems like some of the fans cried over spilled milk. One starrcade being held out of the base area really isn't that big of a deal. SOme people just act like spoiled children when they don't get their way.

[bobbyryates]

for almost 2 decades, greensboro had wrestling on thanksgiving night. it was tradition by then.
STARRCADE '85 was split with atlanta. then STARRCADE '86 was split with atlanta. then STARRCADE '87 was in chicago. it wasn't just one big show. it was the beginning of it all going away for us to see the big live event. up until STARCADE '85, most big shows were in greensboro or charlotte. MACW fans pretty much had access to them, if they were willing to drive a couple hours or so if need be.
the big shows were going away. not just one, but the next one. and the next one...until they were gone and rarely did we see another big show after that. i don't see us as spoiled, i see us as dissapppointed by abandonment.

[ozzsmith]

macw(or the NWA) was really just doing what wwwf was doing at the time, trying to expand the nwa belt's influence. the nwa was trying to gain more noteriaty.but as much as i hate to say it vince kicked the souths behind as far as being far sighted about the future of wrestling as he was in the 80's.

[Baltimore Jack]

Responding to a question earlier in this thread: Crockett first ran Kingsport TN in 1978. The main event was Steamboat and Flair for Steamboat's US title (which Steamboat defended when he pinned Flair clean.) The Dobyns-Bennett High School gym, a huge domed structure which holds serveral thousand, was sold out. Here is a photo from that show, taken by my friend Roger Carico.

[Baltimore Jack]

Crockett moving Starrcade out of Greensboro (beginning with the split cards in 1985 and 1986, and culminating in the 1987 move to Chicago) was a HUGE deal to Mid-Atlantic fans, and Greensboro never recovered from it under Crockett promotions. The coliseum was nearly half empty for the huge Clash of Champions Sting/Flair card and Crockett Cup tournament only a few months later in 1988. The effect of that on the Crockett base cannot be under estimated. That doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong thing to do, as Crockett was trying to show the world he was expanding nationally. But it doesn't change what it did to the original territory, and really was only one part of abandoning the Carolinas and Virginia, just the most noticeable one.

No one was acting like spoiled children. Loyal fans were watching their 50 year old territory die around them. Atlanta's TBS became the prime TV focus (not the Mid-Atlantic shows) and Crockett moved headquarters to Dallas. Starrcade 87 going to Chicago was very painful, even if it was simply a part of the natural course of things at the time.

[stompingground]

Great picture of Dobyns-Bennet. The last time Flair was there he wrestled Nikita Koloff.

[bart]

ozzsmith said:

macw(or the NWA) was really just doing what wwwf was doing at the time, trying to expand the nwa belt's influence. the nwa was trying to gain more noteriaty.but as much as i hate to say it vince kicked the souths behind as far as being far sighted about the future of wrestling as he was in the 80's.

Crocket tried to expand HIS influence, not the NWA's. He killed the NWA just as much as Vince did by dominating the title and making Flair look weak by losing all the time, or never being able to get a clean pin. MACW wasn't the NWA, as much as they tried to tell you they were.

[ironanderson]

The NWA killed itself when the focus wasn't shifted out of St. Louis, MO and onto Atlanta, GA by 1980 and no later than 1983.

Barnett, Crockett, Graham, and Tunney should've considered pulling a Capitol move and spinning WCW creating it's own World title running a loop from Toronto down through Miami with a smorgi everywhere between.

The cable vehicle was their and all that was needed was slow syndicated expansion starting in the biggest markets only. Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc.

The Dallas office hadn't gained steam yet by this point. Houston hadn't begun importing the Watts shows yet either. A lot of things could've been different had a little more muscle been flexed.

[ironanderson]

baltimorejack said:

Crockett moving Starrcade out of Greensboro (beginning with the split cards in 1985 and 1986, and culminating in the 1987 move to Chicago) was a HUGE deal to Mid-Atlantic fans, and Greensboro never recovered from it under Crockett promotions. The coliseum was nearly half empty for the huge Clash of Champions Sting/Flair card and Crockett Cup tournament only a few months later in 1988. The effect of that on the Crockett base cannot be under estimated. That doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong thing to do, as Crockett was trying to show the world he was expanding nationally. But it doesn't change what it did to the original territory, and really was only one part of abandoning the Carolinas and Virginia, just the most noticeable one.

No one was acting like spoiled children. Loyal fans were watching their 50 year old territory die around them. Atlanta's TBS became the prime TV focus (not the Mid-Atlantic shows) and Crockett moved headquarters to Dallas. Starrcade 87 going to Chicago was very painful, even if it was simply a part of the natural course of things at the time.

While I agree that shifting focus out of Greensboro was the wrong thing to do the SC87 move didn't kill JCP in Greensboro.

NWA WRESTLING
Saturday January 02, 1988 Greensboro, NC
Dick Murdoch over Italian Stallion
Lightning Express (Armstrong & Horner) over Gladiators
Sheepherders (Miller & Williams) over Robert Gibson & Ricky Santana
Texas Death Match: Tully Blanchard over Jimmy Garvin
Road Warriors (Animal & Hawk) over Ivan Koloff & Warlord
Dusty Rhodes over by dq Larry Zbyszko
Lex Luger over Arn Anderson
Ric Flair over by dq Michael Hayes

ATT: 12,000+



NWA WRESTLING
Saturday February 27, 1988 Greensboro, NC
Ricky Santana over Black Bart
Jimmy Valiant over John Savage
Lightning Express (Armstrong & Horner) over Sheepherders (Miller & Williams)
Jimmy Garvin over Kevin Sullivan
Ronnie Garvin over Ivan Koloff
Sting over by dq Larry Zbyszko
Barry Windham over by dq Mike Rotundo
Ladder Match: Road Warrior Hawk & Paul Ellering over Powers of Pain (Barbarian & Warlord)
Ole Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, & Lex Luger over Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, & Tully Blanchard

ATT: 10,000+



NWA WRESTLING – CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS
Sunday March 27, 1988 Greensboro, NC
NWA World Television Championship Amateur Match: © Mike Rotundo over round two Jimmy Garvin
NWA US Tag-Team Championship Match: © Midnight Express (Eaton & Lane) over by dq Fantastics (Fulton & Rogers)
Barbed Wire Match: Road Warriors (Animal & Hawk) & Dusty Rhodes over Powers of Pain (Barbarian & Warlord) & Ivan Koloff
NWA World Tag-Team Championship Match Barry Windham & Lex Luger over © Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard
NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match: © Ric Flair drew Sting

ATT: 5,000+


Booking in general killed Greensboro, mainly not recognizing the numbers Flair and Hayes put up not just in Greensboro but other areas as well. Flair versus Hayes was a natural sell on mic work alone as you know already being a student of the game.

And I may take heat for this but oh well. Sting was not a draw in to the traditional JCP markets. Virgil Runnels rushed Sting after the pop in Chicago for the outside dive in the six-man. Sting did have a future but the angle and programs were classic hotshots and fell along the lines of staying in line with Vince Jr. as opposed to being 180 opposite in regards to product.

It's easy for some to look back now and say "oh man the numbers crapped out in Greensboro for Flair and Sting, how? Sting was facing Flair he was a big player!" He wasn't at that point and would never draw like he was projected to mostly due to an inept office (WCW) and down period in business (1991-1995).

Key JCP markets had been conditioned a certain way from 1973-1983 and even on through the Runnels tenoir. Hell Magnum all around was better then Sting was and he even had the slow and steady wins the race approach. Sting was a booking victim at this point and wasn't the star he would become a decade later, not even close. It was 1988 and no one gave a hoot in the money markets.

It comes down to booking errors in the killing of Greensboro and other markets. When you consider that Flair and Luger killed Flair and Sting at the box office in 1988 it sets the example. Luger was not close to being hotshoted like Sting was. And I think Sting was a better worker when both were at their short peaks head to head.

It really was the story of Stings career. They killed him in 1990. They killed him in 1992. They killed him in 1997.