Crockett Cup '86

[starrcadefan]

On all of the TV shows leading up the the original Crockett Cup tournament they had Jim and David Cockett talking about how much they wanted the first tournament to be held in Charlotte, the home of JCP......On one show Jim even said that if it wasn't Charlotte, he hoped it would be one of the 2 successful Starrcade cities, Atlanta or Greensboro.....Of course, it ended up in New Orleans and Bill Watts/Mid South had a heavy presence......My question is, was there ever any question as to where it would be held or was this just idle talk to build up the image that venues all over the country were working to get the event ??

As it was, it seemed spectacular at the time that so many different promotions were respresented with teams entered......By far, this was the ebst of the 3 years of the tag team tournament......

[bluedevil71]

I would imagine it was a bunch of talk to get over the importance of such a major event at the large Superdome. That said, isn't it interesting that Crockett held one of its major events outside of its territory.

[bobbyryates]

in hindsight, it might have been showing us what was to come. such a "major" JCP show, done in a none-JCP town....well, since it failed, it shoulda been a little bit of an influence on taking STARRCADE out of greensboro...but it wasn't. some people never see what is right in front of them.
i tell ya, you had to have seen the look of failure and disgust on jim crockett's face that night in new orleans. when i asked him if it turned out like he expected..he just kept on looking at the crowd and said "no", as emotionless as he could be, and he walked away.

[danpoutsma]

Yes, it was done to get over the importance of the event and where it would be held. They did the same thing in '83 w/ Race vs. Flair when they supposedly had all of the NWA promoters from around the world at the meeting in Tampa bidding on the match. Crockett Promotions won the bid and the name Starrcade was created.

[starrcadefan]

I don't think I ever heard....What exactly made the card sucha failure? Was the attendance really low? Were there conflicts with other promoters over how their teams were used? Were there money disputed with Watts adn the other guys involved with the show? I can't help but think if the attendance was low it may have been due to the Crocketts going on TV and saying they didn't want the evnt anywhere except their "home arenas"......After this show it was obvious somethign didn't work because in 1987 it was an "in house" tournament" and in 1988, Crockett was at the low point with financial troubles and they were barely able to scrape together enough teams from their depleted roster to have the tournament...Even then, the Sheepherders had to wrestle twice in one round to fill out the brackets.......In mid-1987 when they were running shows alongside the UWF I was so excited about the prospects of the 88 tournament with all of these teams from NWA and UWF such as Freebirds, Eddie Gilbert & Terry Taylor, Big Bubba & Black Bart, Rock n Roll Express, Lightning Express, Midnight Express, Barry Windham & Ron Garvin, Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson, Road Warriors, Steve Williams & Terrry Gordy or Ron Simmons, Dory & Terry Funk who were in Florida at the time but appearing on Crockett shows on TBS and ar arenas, Dusty Rhodes & Nikita Koloff, Sting & Chris Adams, and the list goes on of teams that were featured during the Bash 87 NWA and UWF shows........ Man what could have been......I guess a New Orleans failure should have been a flashing warning light for Crockett and Dusty.......

[Baltimore Jack]

There were many ways the first tournament might be considered a failure, but the primary factor had to be attendance. I do not remember the exact numbers but seems like there were maybe only 3000 for the afternoon early rounds and maybe 7000-8000 for the evening finals and the NWA title match. While those are not numbers to sneeze at (those would be very good numbers for today's wrestling), it was considered a huge disappointment at the time, I think the Crocketts and Watts really thought they would put 20,000 to 30,000 people in the Superdome at least.

The way Crockett treated the Mid-South crew was ridiculous, too, in the build-up. I think there was only maybe one or possibly two Mid-South teams in the top 10 seedings, and none near the top. Add to that the "make shift" team of Magnum TA and Ronnie Garvin, who subbed for Dusty when he pulled out of the tournament to meet Flair for the NWA title, keeping the no. 2 seed when they had never teamed before, it was just silly.

I remember thinking how obvious it was to anyone they were screwing up. A Mid-South team should have been seeded at least #2 and a top Mid-South babyface should have been meeting Flair for the title. That would have given them a chance to draw better locally. But from the start they devalued the Mid-South guys. The locals saw right through it, just as they did later that year when Crockett bought Central States, and then in 1987 when they bought Florida and Mid-South (by then the UWF) - they disrespected the local talent and the local fans turned on them.

Blown opportunities is right!

It didn't take long for the Crockett/Watts working relationship to break up after the tournament debacle. I remember reading there was a lot of internal finger pointing between the two companies. The easy out for Crockett and Co. was to blame Watts and Co. for not getting out the local crowd.

[bluedevil71]

I'm not sure I agree with the theory on devaluing the Mid-South guys. Yes, I would agree that there could've been some better seeding for the tournament for the Mid-South teams. Should a team been No. 2? I don't think so. But I don't think that Magnum T.A. and Ronnie Garvin should've been there, either. It would've been hard to put a Mid-South team over top of The Road Warriors (considered the best team in the world) and The Midnight Express (the NWA World tag-team champions).

Then, look at the tournament itself. Mid-South teams constantly pulled off the bigger wins in the early rounds of the tournament: The Sheephearders over Crockett's top face team, The Rock and Roll Express; The Fantastics over Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson. Shoot, look at the quarterfinals. There were four Crockett teams and three Mid-South teams, along with the Japan duo of Giant Baba and Tiger Mask. And the Mid-South teams weren't eliminated by a Crockett team there as The Fantastics and Sheephearders met in a classic brawl, considered to be one of the better matches of the tourney and Steve Williams and Terry Taylor battled the Koloffs to a 20-minute draw.

After the tournament, a number of Crockett guys, in particular, The Koloffs and Dusty Rhodes, showed up on Mid-South programs that summer with the Koloffs working with Kortsia Korchenko and Rhodes working with Watts against the Freebirds. By fall, the working relationship was all for not before Crockett purchased the UWF the next year.

Was there finger-pointing? Probably. It is wrestling.

Looking back on the top 10 seeds the only two Mid-South teams in the top 10 were Steve Williams & Terry Taylor at No. 9 (Remember this was a makeshift team, too, as Ted Dibiase was originally announced for the tourney but was going to take a tour of Japan) and The Sheephearders at No. 10 (the current Mid-South tag champs).

I can see making a point to put one, if not, both of those teams in the Top 10, but who do you take out? The rest of the Top 10, in order, were: The Road Warriors, Magnum T.A. & Ronnie Garvin (probably should've been moved down, but how far), The Midnight Express (NWA TTC), Tully Blanchard (National HC) & Arn Anderson (World TV HC), The Rock and Roll Express (former NWA TTC), Rick Martel & Dino Bravo, Giant Baba & Tiger Mask (both put in top 10 for international reasons) and The Koloffs (a former two-time NWA World TTC).

As for the remaining Mid-South teams in the tourney, who gets pushed up to a bye -- Rick Steiner & Buzz Sawyer (No), Hector & Chavo Guerrero (maybe, but probably not), The Fantastics (possibly, but they got pushed through the tourney anyway), The Fabulous Ones (maybe, but they were losing in Mid-South, so that doesn't make sense), David Peterson & Brett Sawyer (no) or Bill Dundee & Buddy Landell (who were an on-again, off-again duo as Dundee was working Memphis some too after being traded back and forth to Mid-South), so probably no there, too.

Looking back on the brackets there weren't that many cross-over matches. Really. Look Sawyer and Steiner beat Italian Stallion & Koko Ware before losing to T.A. & Garvin. That's one. The Sheephearders beat the Guerreros, then RnR Express (two) before the DDQ with the Fantasics, who beat the Fabulous Ones in Round 1, then beat Tully & Arn (Three) in Round 2. Peterson & Sawyer lost to Jimmy Garvin & Black Bart (four) and Landell & Dundee lost to Williams & Taylor.

So there are five matches where Crockett teams faced Mid-South. Each group won twice and one match was a draw. Plus Mid-South won the two of the three higher-profile matches and one was a draw.

Would it have made sense to put Flair against a Mid-South opponent? Maybe to draw a better local crowd, but who -- Williams, Taylor. Then you hurt the tournament.

It's too bad they didn't draw any better. PWI (I know who can believe them) said the draw was about 3,000-5,000 for the afternoon show and 12,000 for the night show.

As for the points on the buyouts of Central States, Florida and Mid-South, I couldn't agree more. Crockett and Dusty handled those all wrong and really lost the local fans for it.

[jeffofnc]

I got a few questions about the tournament #1 Why weren't the World Tag champs the #1 seed Yes The Road Warriors were wayyyyyy over it just sounds logical to have the Tag champs as #1

Secondly Who put Black Bart with Jimmy Garvin? Very odd pairing and finally what happened to Rick Martell and the late great Dino Bravo Was it as it was told that Bravo was ill?

Jeff

[bobbyryates]

martel walked to the ring and addressed the crowd. he said that bravo had come down with appendicitis the night before and would not be able to wrestle, so they were eliminated....well, at least martel did show up.
best i can recall, bravo just singed with the WWF, i think.

[Baltimore Jack]

In regards to devaluing the Mid-South talent, I was referring to the pre-tournament hype and specifically the seeding press conference more than the tournament itself. The only two UWF teams were at #9 and #10 as you pointed out. There is no way around seeing what the message is in those seedings. The tournament could have played out the same way regardless of the seedings. But those seedings clearly said to Mid-South fans that your best team is no better than 8 of our teams. Even if it were true, it makes no promotional sense. And if you have Magnum/Garvin at #2 then you could have justified putting Taylor/Williams at #3 (or at least higher than #9.)

Good perspective on the tournament. I had forgotten most of those details.

[jeffofnc]

I have a tape of the event I got from the internet a few years ago and I do remember seeing Martel addressing the crowd.

Thank ya much Bobby

Jeff

[bluedevil71]

I hear you, Jack. I'm just not sure who they could've put up in the Top 10 to make sense unless it had been Williams/Dibiase (then announce Taylor was subbing as they did for Garvin and T.A.) and the Sheephearders. The Sheephearders definitely should've been ranked higher to give the champions a boost.

As for Bravo, you may be right on signing with WWF. He was pretty close to being there. He got there later in 86 and definitely by early 87.

[Baltimore Jack]

>> Why weren't the World Tag champs the #1 seed Yes The Road Warriors were wayyyyyy over it just sounds logical to have the Tag champs as #1

That was what Jim Cornette was asking in some classic interviews following that press conference. The answer is they got screwed!

He even resurrected that question a year later when the Midnights were seeded 6th in the 1987 tournament and he explained on TV a valid reason why they should be ranked ahead of everyone of the teams above them except he admitted that the no. 1 seed, Rick Rood and Manny Fernandez, should be the #1 seeds because they are world tag champs. Except they (Midnights) were world tag champs in 1986 and were they no. 1 seeds? NO! Lol, I loved how Cornette tied his current frustration into something a year old, all to prove a conspiracy that the Crocketts were out to get him.

[bluedevil71]

Now, I know the storyline was that PWI seeded the teams for the '86 tournament, but didn't in '87 and '88. I can't recall if Crockett mentioned that or if anything was played off of that in any of the years.

[starrcadefan]

From what I remember JJ Dillon had put Tully Blanchard and Jimmy Garvin together as a team when Arn Anderson was originally teamed up with Ric Flair for the tournament.....The story was Ole was out with an injury, Tully needed a partner, and JJ put him together with his old friend Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin, whom he had previously managed......When Flair was moved to the NWA title match with Dusty Rhodes, Tully took his spot teaming with Arn and the one of the Apter mags said that JJ hooked Garvin up with his old protege Black Bart to fill that team slot on the card.......At least, that was he spin one of the newsstand mags put on it......At the time I thought it was sort of cool seeing Bart and Garvin team up, as teams like that one weren'y often seen, very different looks and styles......It was sort of fun as a young fan wondering "What in the world could Black Bart and Jimmy Garvin talk about before their matches?".........

If anyone has a chance to get this show and you have never seen it, I would say to definitely do so...Seeing so many different stars of the various territories on one show was quite a spectacle.....Too bad it didn't last and develop a long running talent swap.......