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Post by HardcoreHeroes on Apr 21, 2006 17:33:47 GMT -5
Guys (and girls!,) I'm not looking to use this to start a war with anyone in particular. My reason for this post is because I'd like feedback from YOU!
As a wrestling fan, one thing that absolutely grates on me to no end is when a promoter advertises someone or something, and does it knowingly in a sneaky way in an attempt to sell more tickets.
For example, someone advertises the Rock-n-Roll Express, I expect to see Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson unless it's made VERY clear that it's something other. If someone advertises The Mulkeys, I expect to see Bill and Randy unless it's stated otherwise.
Can we not expect that from indy promoters? In my opinion, a ticket-buyer not only has a right to expect that, but to demand it, from wrestling promotions.
I see this all the time and it seems to be more acceptable from a fan's point of view nowadays to NOT hold the promoter responsible.
This is coming from someone that's lost more money running outlaw shows than I'd like to remember. Stand up! You don't allow Wendy's to pass off a 99 cent Junior Bacon Cheesburger on you when you order a Triple with cheese. Why would you accept less from a wrestling promoter?
If wrestling fans continue to put up with junk like this, you send a message to the crooked promoters that they can get away with anything. And eventually they will.
Okay, so much for the birthday rant.
I'd like to get your feedback. No name-calling here. I'm not trying to single any promoter out, but I do want to send a message to everyone out there. Just because we're wrestling fans, it doesn't give you the right to give us anything less than what you've advertised.
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Post by wreslfan724 on Apr 21, 2006 17:48:13 GMT -5
Amen brother thank you for speaking up about that, I have even more respect for you and I miss your shows. You did a superb job when you were promoting and now you are doing a great job bringing us great fan fests where we can meet the real legends of pro wrestling.
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Post by bobbyryates on Apr 21, 2006 21:22:34 GMT -5
after just a few shows under our belts, we have learned that things do happen at the worst of times. it can be adjusted to not hinder the show too much, but we did at least get good replacements at late notice when it happened. but luck isn't that good to everybody all the time.
but to use names to sell tickets and then make the fans feel screwed, this does need to stop. it's one thing that these names are getting used and overused in some areas, but people will stop going to shows with their names on them when theses names do not show up.
promotors are not the only bad guys. the boys themselves can be their own worst enemy. so many say they want promotors to use them and on the other hand, some stick promotors with inflated fees of what they want paid. do you pay them? maybe. i know i've been took before. but i remember that too. but i also remember the guys that go all out and give a good bout with a good honest attitude without playing games with promotors over money. i know a few guys right now that will try to have on EVERY show i do (if available) because they are honest with me and don't think a promotor is to be 'shook down' over money. the ones that 'take me', like i said, i remember that. i respect that honesty and i respect them. and i expect to be treated the same way by everyone else. on my show, you will get paid in full as agreed upon. so don't try to screw over on me.
i have learned that what's wrong with this business is so many people on both sides do each other in. that needs to stop now. as the business will suffer, so shall the fans. and they will quit coming. then their goes the business we profess to love so much.
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Post by ssteward on Apr 21, 2006 21:25:52 GMT -5
I agree Greg, I've read about several instances of that stuff over the years. It's wrong.
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Post by HardcoreHeroes on Apr 21, 2006 21:57:23 GMT -5
i have learned that what's wrong with this business is so many people on both sides do each other in. that needs to stop now. as the business will suffer, so shall the fans. and they will quit coming. then their goes the business we profess to love so much. Bobby: Let me put this in the best context I can. And before I do, again, I'm not directing this towards anyone in particular. I know there are hundreds of indy workers and indy promoters busting their humps to do the right thing, and I'm certainly not knocking the effort. In my opinion, the one big thing that is so wrong with the wrestling business in the past 20 years is that there are no standards. Anyone can be a wrestler. Anyone can be a promoter. Anyone can be a referee. Anyone can be a manager. Anyone. There are no standards. I'd like to think that prior to the 80s, wrestling was a profession. If you sucked, you couldn't make it. In recent years, I've seen folks take fans out of the crowd to be the ref for the night when someone didn't show up. I've seen promoters put guys in the ring with zero knowledge of the business. I've seen guys wrestle for promoters that didn't have a clue the business was a work. Again, I'd like to think that didn't happen in the 80s and before. I don't know what the solution is, but I know in my opinion this is the thing that has changed wrestling so much in the past 20 years; so much so that it will most likely never recover. Standards. |
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Post by ozzsmith on Apr 21, 2006 22:29:37 GMT -5
well it has always been a carny operation since it's conception. ;)most fans oughta or should know that sometimes whats on the menu ain't whats for dinner. i support promoters who make a effort to please the fans, not fleece them.
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Post by stylin61 on Apr 22, 2006 14:17:57 GMT -5
Guys (and girls!,) I'm not looking to use this to start a war with anyone in particular. My reason for this post is because I'd like feedback from YOU! As a wrestling fan, one thing that absolutely grates on me to no end is when a promoter advertises someone or something, and does it knowingly in a sneaky way in an attempt to sell more tickets. For example, someone advertises the Rock-n-Roll Express, I expect to see Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson unless it's made VERY clear that it's something other. If someone advertises The Mulkeys, I expect to see Bill and Randy unless it's stated otherwise. Can we not expect that from indy promoters? In my opinion, a ticket-buyer not only has a right to expect that, but to demand it, from wrestling promotions. I see this all the time and it seems to be more acceptable from a fan's point of view nowadays to NOT hold the promoter responsible. This is coming from someone that's lost more money running outlaw shows than I'd like to remember. Stand up! You don't allow Wendy's to pass off a 99 cent Junior Bacon Cheesburger on you when you order a Triple with cheese. Why would you accept less from a wrestling promoter? If wrestling fans continue to put up with junk like this, you send a message to the crooked promoters that they can get away with anything. And eventually they will. Okay, so much for the birthday rant. I'd like to get your feedback. No name-calling here. I'm not trying to single any promoter out, but I do want to send a message to everyone out there. Just because we're wrestling fans, it doesn't give you the right to give us anything less than what you've advertised. Absolutely right Greg. Some fans on other boards anger me because as long as they see some wrestling they take too much crap. Most times they probably can't converse with a promoter and just stop going to indy shows sometimesit even hurts other indy promoters by association if a fan says "no more indy cards for me". Even the last WWE card I went do did not have one match that was posted at the box office on the card including no Ric Flair at all when he was advertised and to me the main draw. I don't mind one or two changes if they are explained reasonably and a decent effort to substitute is made because I know some of "the boys" cause the promoter to have some of the problems as well. I have some very real concerns about the future of the indy scene in this area. A lot of shows are either cancelled or not drawing well. I think a lot of it is that it is now a niche market with a group of loyal fans having to travel to get their fix since there a few towns that run regularly anymore you have to follow websites to find out about shows plus go to the expense and time of travel to get there. When I do that I know I expect to get what I was promised, plus at the ticket prices some charge thrown in to the expense equation I expect to see name talent which I know gets expensive but can you draw from out-of-town with a card of unknowns on a regualr basis with no way to establish new stars like you used to have with tv and towns running regularly? I don't know what the answer is, do you ahve any ideas? |
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Post by acezappa on Apr 22, 2006 15:44:40 GMT -5
Here's my perspective on this. I'm an old school fan of wrestling, however, I only invested a few years into my obsession/passion, before I strayed for numerous reasons (most notably because I didn't care for the direction wrestling was moving towards.) I've always hated McMahon and the WWF. Even at 12 I knew that Hulk Hogan was a joke wrestler, and I wanted no part of his juggernaut into wrestling history. Then when the promotion I loved the most started trying to be more like that, I left. I've only been back to watching wrestling religiously since the beginning of last year, and it's thanks 100% for the Indy scene. I do watch both fed's on the TV, but I have more fun going to the Indy shows (and unless the tickets are free, I have no plans investing any of my hard-earned money going to any WWE shows to watch the back of signs and sit through commercial BS.) I've only managed to make it to a handful of events over the last year and a half, mostly due to work. I'm sure there were times I could say I was "took" by whoever "took" me, but I enjoyed myself enough to not let the bad part bother me. Was that bad? Yes and no, I suppose. No because I had a great time during some times in my life when nothing good was going on at all, but yes because maybe I didn't stand up and say, "Ya know what, this is something that shouldn't have happened, even though I wasn't bothered much by it." For those that do invest more time, money, and energy into it than myself, I can totally understand and respect why they would be pissed and want to never go back to that promotion's shows.
I do agree that there doesn't seem to be any standards any more, even on the smaller scale that I'm on with the whole thing. Honestly, I'm just tickled to take in a live event, no matter who's on the card. I find that I enjoy the unknown local guys as much as I do the legends. I'm one of those rare breed of people that's in it strictly for the sport of it. I just love it. I don't care anything about meeting them, getting autographs or pictures made, or memorabilia. I don't care so much about storylines beyond, "I'm going to kick that guys a** over there." I just love wrestling, and am thankful to have it back in my life, even if I am forced to watch the Devil's fed, lol. I caught the bug again, and I've got it bad. I do wish there was more honesty out there, and I wish shows wouldn't get canceled a lot, and I wish I was better able to know about the shows close by and be able to attend more of them. I can only imagine how tough it is to run a show. I used to play in bands, so I know a little bit about putting on shows, and it was one of the big things that pushed me out of that. It is a pain in the a**! I doubt there is any simple solution to it. No matter what, there will be crooked people out there trying to "fleece the sheep," no matter what a person enjoys.
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Post by dogthuhoops2k on Apr 23, 2006 18:18:14 GMT -5
Having been a part of a good number of indy shows and promoted a few of them myself over the last few years, I've learned a lot, good and bad, about the business. And I still dont know anything compared to others, and I am the first to admit that.
Greg is right about one thing. There are no rules. There really is no structure and everyone is an independent contractor and a lot of organizations look to make a buck at all costs. Money is extremely important to your operation, as blood is to your body, but that desire to make money has to be tempered with respect for the community (fans and sponsors).
The reason why there are no rules is because people can make a quick buck off a crud show. It's not likely to change anytime soon. But guess what? It's not just wrestling that has seen a drop in standards. From Television, to t-shirt makers, quality isnt as important as it use to be...and neither are morals.
With that said, there are some really good promoters, in terms of honesty and trying to do the right thing, in the area. Same with workers... then again there are some that are total whores...same with workers. It's a mix of good and bad and you usually cant tell the difference until you get burned...fans, promoters, workers, alike.
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