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Post by valiantsbeard on Jan 22, 2005 23:40:20 GMT -5
WCW seemed like a retirement home for theWWF, which made it look 2nd rate.
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Post by Flair4theGold on Jan 25, 2005 15:17:31 GMT -5
One thing I never thought was that they looked second rate. Sure, they had production snafus, but so does every other live show from time to time, including Raw. In its simplest form, WCW did not have any foresight either creatively or financially. If you're gonna pay guys millions of dollars and then not have a plan to use them properly 6 months down the line, you're obviously gonna lose money and business. I can almost forgive the creative screw-ups because casual wrestling fans are a fickle group and hard to maintain. But any business man with any sense knows that throwing money at a problem is not the way to fix it.
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Post by Flair81 on Jan 25, 2005 22:47:56 GMT -5
WCW would have been better off sticking to its
Saturday night 6:05 to 8:05 format than going head
to head with RAW on Monday nights. They could have
cut the number of PPV's in half and had the clash
of champions more often.
When they went to NITRO on Monday's they cut the number of house shows down to almost nothing. For
awhile there they where working Monday's and one
PPV per month. This killed many southern towns.
Getting Hogan may have helped in the short run
but overall once they got him they lost sight of putting
quality into live wrestling shows. Of course disrepecting
Flair is never a good move when putting on any
wrestling event.
In the end WCW really sucked to the point of being
funny. The fan base WCW had just found other ways
to spend the "entertainment" dollar. What they failed
to realize was that "wrestling" itself can be entertainment.
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Post by thatchermark on Jan 26, 2005 22:38:17 GMT -5
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. They just made too many personnel mistakes. They let future stars go ( Mark Callous, Diamond Studd, Vinnie Vegas, Steve Austin, Terra Rizin, Scotty Flamingo, Cactus Jack, Shane Douglas, Rob VanDam, etc.) before they found their nitch. A bad gimmick, lack of experience, or misuse of a character doesn't mean they'll never work out, Vince has proved that (Terry Taylor is an exception:().
They were also never able to fully develop new talent from the mid-late 80's until their demise. Kurt Angle, The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, The Dudley's, Benjamin, and Haas were guys somebody for the company should have signed before Vince ever laid eyes on them. Hurricane, Jindrak, Shannon Moore and Kidman are the only guys I can think of now working in the bigtime. Mike Sanders, Palumbo, O'Haire, Karagias, The Wall, Reno, and Alex Wright just aren't gonna ge it done.
Talent trumps bad booking in my opinion. If you have the right people working, eventualy your gonna book something right, by accident if nothing else. That is the only advantage Vince seems to have had in my opinion, an eye for young talent. But, smarter than me have pontificated on this subject, this is just how I see it.
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KGB
Rookie
Posts: 1
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Post by KGB on Jan 28, 2005 12:08:58 GMT -5
I can't believe how many of you think that signing Hogan and switching the emphasis from house shows and Saturday night to Nitro were mistakes. WCW had been a money losing company for years, until those moves were made. There's simply no arguing with their success. I don't like the Hoaxster at all, but there's no doubt he made money for WCW. The unfortunate aspect of Hogan was the near autonomy he got written into his contract. That was the thing that came back to bite the company when things started going downhill. The Sting match was definitely the turning point. Why would Hogan have any qualms about messing with the original finish (which was overbooked to begin with. Should have been a clean finish, no Bret Hart, no anybody.) when he had no one to answer to? It's not like there was a booker who was going to punish him in a storyline. But no one should lose sight of the fact that Hogan, love him or hate him, put WCW on the map in the 90s. Same thing with Monday Nitro. There's no need to have a strong house show business when your TV is making so much money for you and setting up your PPVs. House shows lose their relevence in that scenario. They should have been used to polish the performance of the undercard guys, but as a money maker and something that could have kept the company afloat, they weren't an issue. I agree that killing off the south just to satisfy the pettiness of the guys who hated Flair was a big, big mistake, but it didn't have to kill the company. By that time, it was a national brand, not a regional company.
Saving WCW would have required creating new stars, there's not much else one can point to.
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Post by superworker on Jan 16, 2006 1:42:48 GMT -5
GarvinStomp got it right about Kevin Sullivan and WCW. He also was a huge part of the demise of the Florida territory with that stupid Devil gimmick he , Mark Lewin and Bob Roop were playing.
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Post by thegreatbolo on Jan 16, 2006 8:52:11 GMT -5
Getting rid of Bischoff would have helped drastically.
Plus, never bringing in Hogan.
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Post by superworker on Jan 19, 2006 14:16:03 GMT -5
Right on about Hogan....he couldnt even come up with a name for himself. He OWES Vince his life. I wrestled him In Ga. Championship Wrestling and he was called Sterling Golden and his finish was the "bear hug" called the Golden Squeeze! Theres some originality for you! BTW I have the video of that I bought off the internet. 4 hrs of good old Ga. wrestling except for the " HUCKSTER"...lol
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Post by tmbailey on Jan 21, 2006 11:12:05 GMT -5
I have said this to my friends several times. The day WCW officially died, was the day Chris Jericho left for the WWF. WCW was doing a great job slowly building CJ's character. CJ got alot of great heat and was actually pretty entertaining. Of course this quickly went downhill once WCW realized he was not staying; but, with a few more years of building, Jericho could have been a great heel champ. I dont think it could have worked with Bischoff/Hogan, but we can dream cant we?
Tom
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Post by GarvinStomp on Jan 21, 2006 13:10:40 GMT -5
well, without Hogan I don't think WCW ever would've gotten as big as it was. Hall & Nash were great, but Hogan turning heel and joining the NWO was what really put that stable over the top. NWO would've been a good but not great stable had Hogan not been the 3rd man. NWO and Hogan really didn't start getting old for most people until sometime in 1998 it seemed like. Hogan did a lot of damage in holding back some of the younger stars to be but he also was one of the big names that jumped up the ratings. Also remember that if no Hogan, then Sting wouldn't have become as big a deal as he was in 1997 and Goldberg I don't think would've been as big either had he not gotten the win in front of 30,000 + in the Georgia Dome.
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Post by superworker on Apr 16, 2006 0:11:33 GMT -5
The Huckster could only hold em up for a while. Anybody that knows anything about wrestling knows Hogan is and was nothing even though he made a fortune. Having "writers" like Bischoff and others instead of getting a wrestling mind in there similar to George Scott would have helped. Plus going up north into Ohio, Michigan etc was a very bad move. Dance with the one that brung ya!
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Post by jblcenafan on Apr 21, 2006 18:32:52 GMT -5
I think WCW started the decline around the time Nitro started , honestly Flair and Arn Anderson were putting over everyone for years and no one ever got elevated. After Hogan turned he jobbed to Piper and The Giant and Lex Luger all leading to hisd build up vs Sting at Starrcade 97. Why you would job out a guy and then act like him facing Sting would be a milestone never made sense. Also , Sting showed in 90 that he couldn't carry the company , he actually drew more ratings and sold more shirts hiding in the rafters and swinging his bat. Jericho and Beniot and Eddie all should have been pushed in WCW and instead were made to look like crap. Uncle Eric went a little crazy trying to have everyone under contract he could but not using half of them. Also Goldberg should have gone to 1000 and 0. Sorry there are like 500 reasons for WCW's demise. Buff Bagwell and many others like The Natural Born Thrillers were just the shits.....
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Post by jblcenafan on Apr 21, 2006 18:40:13 GMT -5
The NWO was hip and a fad. I should also add that. Every mall was filled with kids wearing NWO shirts and it sold like hotcakes and every week they beat up and pissed on every single person the original WCW fans liked. So for all of us buying ppvs even poo poo ones like Fall Brawl 94 (Return of Dusty Rhodes) all these years of buying tickets and ppvs just got destoryed so Uncle Eric could sign the current WWF champion (Nash as Diesel) and his best friend (Scott Hall) and have them come over and joke Vince and all the WCW fans and look like big shots. Well HHH and HBK have been on top and will always be on top longer than Hall Nash and Hogan. People forget that HHH was having 5 star ppvs matches before his quad blew and before he was dating Stephanie. Hall and Nash will end up being footnotes..
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Post by mrwrestling101 on Apr 24, 2006 18:49:43 GMT -5
I thought I would add my 2 cents here.
When you look back at JCP you think wrestling right the bottom line is this when you put nonwrestlers booking and writing for real wrestlers it kills the company. Then you take a booker who wants to be the only main star then what happens you get DUSTY FAT MAn Rhodes. The Bottom line is this Dusty was a good booker at times wrestling was hot but he should have not booked himself in every hot angle there was. Dusty had to be on top of everything. If he would have just stayed in the back and Booked the show it would have been Great and still around. Now if youy think I'm wrong look at Bill watts his bookers where wrestler but they did not wrestler while they where bookers.
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